Recent Thoughts, Future Endeavors, and Present Realities
I know it's been a while since I posted anything, and my wife has been getting on me to put down my thoughts on some stuff, so I thought I'd throw something up here. It's hard to figure out exactly what I want to talk about; I've got so many things rattlin' 'round in my head right now: Reformation, covenants, confessions, new perspectives, Rabbinic Judaism, eternal damnation, martyrdom (pleasant, huh?), assurance and the nature of our salvation (why we are saved and what we are saved unto/into), being in but not of the world....My brain is a very crowded place right now. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I'm finding my attentions are spread thinly. There's not enough hours in the day to do all the studying I want to do.
Well, OK, I'll pick the one that I have most recently discussed with Michelle. What does it mean to be in the world but not of it? Where does that concept find its foundation (specifically)? How do we accomplish this in our everyday lives. Is it total separation from worldy organizations and institutions? Is it being a presence of Christianity and an example of Christ within those org.'s and institutions?
The PCA [Presbyterian Church in America - whacky reformers;)]has recently put before their General Assembly a proposition that, if approved, would serve as the official recommendation of the denomination for members to remove their children from public schools. Is this the route to go, or should we seek to evangelize the schools by putting our kids in them? What about our jobs? Do we seek to support our families, which we must do, by working for, and therefore supporting, businesses and companies that do no proclaim the Kingship of Christ? Or do we move to the country and start a farm to support ourselves? What are the practical applications and requirements of being "in but not of the world"? Do we even understand what that means? This topic/question seems to be, at least to me, the logical next step after my papers that I wrote. It is the practicality of my epistemolgy. This is a topic that I plan to write on in more depth, so any thoughts, suggestions, opinions, beliefs, etc. that anyone has would be most valued.
posted by Ian @ 12:00 PM
26 comments
26 Comments:
Ian,
This is something I have thought a little about recently. I have always looked at John 17:13-21.
13 But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. 20 I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us,so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
I don't believe that God intends us to separate ourselves from or keep our contact with the "world" to a minimum. If that was His intention why are we still here? Why are we not taken into glory at the moment of our convertion? Why are we left in this corrupt place? We're here to be lights in and to the people so that they may believe.
As far as putting our children into public schools... this could become a heated debate. Myself and three siblings all came through 12 years of public schooling. Personally I would not have wanted it any other way. I never went to a "christian" elementary school but I had plenty of friends that did. It seems to me that most of them are no longer walking with the Lord. I'm not to sure if there is a huge difference between the two as far as long term is concerned(I think home schooling is a separate issue). School is what 6-7 hours out of a 24 hour day. That leaves parents 17 or 18 hours to give their children a Godly education.
I did attend a christian collage for a year and found that, as far as the students go they were no differnt than any of my secular friends in high school. Smoking, drinking, sex it was all still there. Many were raised in "christian" schools with a "christian" curriculum.
This is a desicion every parent has to make and I find it interesting that both the Baptist and the Presbyterian Chruch's have step in to influence parents to remove the children from public schoolsand place them into christian schools.
That's all I have for now. Hopefully that all made sense.
Ian,
We are not called/saved/elected for ourselves but "for the world." John 3:16
The Church exists, to serve God, for the world.
What is the greatest commandment? Hear O Israel,The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength. The second greatest commandment is this: Love your neighbor as your self.
Too many Christians think being saved is all about going to heaven when you die.
Officially recommending that Christians remove their children from public schools (there by infering that it is a biblical command and your not really spiritual if you don't) is a bad idea.
The issue isn't homeschooling, it is requiring something that is extra-biblical. Parents can fufill Deut. 6 whether their children are homeschooled or not. You can homeschool and not be fulfilling your parental duties.
Going hiking in Vermont today to the cabin at the top of the mountain for our elders retreat. Pray I come back alive. This should be a good discussion it will be rattling around in my head as I crawl up East Haven in the 90 degree heat.
Dad
Dad,
Did you use the link and read the article about the PCA's resolution? What do you think about their reasoning and critique of the public schools?
"The issue isn't homeschooling, it is requiring something that is extra-biblical. Parents can fufill Deut. 6 whether their children are homeschooled or not. You can homeschool and not be fulfilling your parental duties."
Good point.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength. The second greatest commandment is this: Love your neighbor as your self.
I think this is a key point that the church largely misunderstands. What is love? How do we express it and/or apply it to our neighbor? Who is our neighbor? I hinted at this in my final paper, and have been thinking about it for a while. I'll share more when my thoughts take a more solid shape.
Robb,
How would you define "the world", what is it? I agree with you about not keeping our contact to a minimum, but what form does this contact take (kind of works into the "Love thy neighbor" thing), and what should our aim be in maintaining it? Are we to "deal" with the world, "keep the wolves at bay" if you will, until we are brought into glory? Or is our contact meant to accomplish more than that?
Dad,
Praying for you on your hike. Don't forget your inhaler, and don't forget to s-t-r-e-t-c-h!
Goodness, Jim, I'm impressed! [Personally I hike vicariously through Beth. It doesn't seem to have helped with the waistline, but it saves on muscle pain.]
As I have been studying the gospels recently, I've noticed there's a tendancy in man to often focus on the wrong thing. There's a desire to focus on the "doing". One may begin by having an honest desire to please the Lord, but end up spending all their energy developing "dos and don'ts" that go beyond what Scripture teaches, which often leads eventually to where they never intended to go. [e.g. rabbinical laws] I think Robb quoted a really relevant passage, and Jim reinforced it. Believers are God's emissaries on earth. He has chosen to use them to spread His gospel and make disciples. To not be "of the world" means not only to reject the worldly POV, but also to not become so distracted with the things of the world [even good things]that we forget our job.
As for children and education...
personally I believe it's better left a family decision. I know I disagreed with Loren & Cindy on this for the early grades. I felt a young child's mind was not able to discern truth and lie and I wanted them to have teachers who believed in God. I did not, however, expect the school to save them. Tim went to public HS and learned to be evangelistic. Would Beth at that point in her life have done the same? I don't think so. Different kids...
different needs at the time. [Can a child learn to discern? Yes, but as a parent you're going to have to work really hard to be involved and teach them to. Of course, you need to do this no matter where they are schooled. They WILL be in the world, even if home schooled. Just turn on that TV...]
Hi Ian & Michelle,
I'm back. We had a great time. I would love to go up here with Matt, Ian, Neal and Nate for an overnight.
http://www.shilohnh.com/EastHaven.html.
I agree with Beth'sMom. It is a family decision. After driving a school bus this year I can certainly understand a parent's reluctance to send their little one's to public school, but I don't believe it is an impossible situation if the parents are involved. Not every family is equipped to homeschool and I think some underestimate the stress homeschooling can put on a family, especially mothers. You probably don't want this thread to turn into a discussion on homeschooling.
We're off to Neal and Trudy's for Shea's birthday.
Ya' know, I never intended this to become a discussion on schooling. Michelle and I have our opinions on the matter and are confident in them, but we also respect those of others. I agree that it is/should be a family decision. I had recently read that article about the PCA and their proposition, and decided to use it as an example to the larger topic.
"One may begin by having an honest desire to please the Lord, but end up spending all their energy developing "dos and don'ts" that go beyond what Scripture teaches, which often leads eventually to where they never intended to go. " -Deb
I agree; this was the error of the Pharisees. They were so concerned about breaking the Law that they added law upon extaneous law in order to prevent breaking it. However, over time they lost sight of the original Law and were, therefore, as Christ told themamong the greatest transgressors of it. However, is it wrong to "focus on 'doing'"? Does not conviction and committment require action? Can we know without demonstrating our knowledge? Can we "committ un-committaly"? As we learn more and more through the scriptures, our lives must change as we attend to what we learn. It is easy for us to say that we are God's emissaries or ambassadors, but what does that demand from us? It is not a job that we can reject as Christians. If we are His people, then we are His ambassadors; we bear the image of our King. Yes, we spread His gospel, but how? Is the gospel merely a spoken thing? We witness (verb), but isn't it more important to be "a" witness (noun)? We make disciples, but do we only do it during mentoring sessions once a week? What I'm getting at is the deep, all encompassing, nook-and-cranny filling requirement of our faith. How is that displayed in our lives in this world that we are in? Dad referenced Deut 6 [the great Sh'mah (Hebrew for "Hear")]. Go read that passage. It is God's instruction to His chosen people on how to live in the world. It is chiefly about obeying Him, not the responsibility to the world around them. What then is our primary responsibility in contacting the world around us? How do we love our neighbor? (I have thoughts on all these questions, but would like to hear some of you' guys's first.)
Dad,
Glad you had a good time, and that you made it there and back again in one piece! Also, I had quite the revelation/insight/goose-bump inducing, "Oh, I see it!" moment when going back and re-reading your first comment. I'll talk to you about it later; maybe it will end up on here as post sometime [or maybe in a book ;) ], we'll see.
Ian
Not to change the subject, but isn't the PCA also voting on supporting gay unions? I think I saw a blurb about it in WORLD. Disappointing!
On the school topic. I agree with most everything said, and if I am blessed with children someday I would love to homeschool- as long as there are ways to impact and be a light to the community/town other than sending your kids to a public school. Homeschooling is becoming increasingly popular among non-christains and forming homeschooling groups could be a great ministry. We are here to be a light to individuals not to fix institutions.
Beth,
I'm pretty sure that is the PCUSA that you're thinking of. They are already pretty liberal [really only Presbyterian in the true meaning of the word: pertaining to its form of gov't], allowing things such as female clergy [gasp! not that again! What ever happened to that discussion anyway....?].
Your comments on schooling are interesting; they bring a question to mind [for everyone]:
What is the goal of homeschooling or public schooling [actually gov't schooling. Our schools are not public] our children? If we send our kids to public schools to be witnesses to the world, if evangelizing the world is our goal, wouldn't it be more profitable [and this is just a question, not stating an opinion here. OK, well maybe...] to first train our children in solid, God centered truth [yes, even arithmatic can be centered around God], and then set them out to be a witness? I guess another way to ask the question would be this: Why do we educate our children in the first place? Where is our priority? Beth said this, "We are here to be a light to individuals not to fix institutions." So what is the priority? To evangelize, or to ensure that we, and our children, are trained to be the brightest light possible and enabled to be evangelists? Also, this, "if I am blessed with children someday I would love to homeschool- as long as there are ways to impact and be a light to the community/town other than sending your kids to a public school." [Not picking on you, Beth. It's just that, as I said, your comments sparked some questions in my head.] Aren't we instructed to give our children, and seek out for ourselves, a proper, God centered education regardless of whether or not it impacts the community? Why is this? Could it be that our instruction and equipping should, come first? That it should enable our contact with the world, not facilitate it? How do these things apply to situations besides the schooling issue? Hmmmm....
Ian,
I didn't mean to suggest that "doing" is not a part of the Christian walk, I was trying to point to the motivation for "doing". I see it as sort of a "chicken and egg" thing. Which comes first - the innerman relationship with God [a relationship with an understanding of who God is, as revealed in His Word, and who we are] or the "doing"? My premise is that the "doing" is a natural outcome of the innerman being in a correct relatioinship with God (and I'm talking about believers here). If I understand spiritually, than it will exhibit itself in my treatment of others, my neighbors. The outer action, the "doing" is a direct consequence of the inner sanctification. My observation is that many believers focus on the "doing" as if it were an end in itself, whereas if they spent serious time in God's Word and in prayer and their inner spirit became progressively more Christlike, the result would be a manifestation of proper actions . I don't know if that is the train of thought you had in the original post, but I think it's an important issue when someone tries to set up extraneous rules for all in their church to follow.
Deb,
I agree. However, when you say, "My premise is that the 'doing' is a natural outcome of the innerman being in a correct relatioinship with God," I would add "necessary" to "natural". The doing will take place, for the scriptures say "You shall know them by their fruits". That being said, what is our responsibility to the doing? Do we sit back and wait for it to happen? Or is part of the doing, part of our regeneration, an active stewardship of the resultant works of our salvation? What role do we play in the evidence and working of our faith? Where does the distinction lay between those that "do" as if it were an end in itself, and those that "do" as a result of their salvation?
Thanks, everyone, for your input so far. I'm taking notes ;-)
Ian
well, i'm picking up on this late, but i have some pretty significant opinions. first of all, i don't think its a church government/leadership's job to say whether its better to send your kid to a christian school or not. second of all, as has probably been said by my sister or some other Calvary alum, christian schools aren't the ivory tower of christian education. they are mostly as messed up as most public schools.
you can't say that one is good for every kid and one is bad for every kid. for me, Pinkerton was an amazing opportunity to grow as a Christian. for the first time, really, i was given the choice to be either known as a Christian or not. it was a growing experience, but i was able to bring the gospel to where it might not have been. this whole thing about telling people to not put their kids in public schools is poorly planned and removing something that God could really use in the life of the child.
the real responsibility comes from home and from the church to teach and train these children in the way that they should go.
Again, this conversation was never meant to be centered around the schooling issue. It is an aspect of the larger topic, but not the intended focal point.
Tim,
Like your sister's, your comments lead me to some questions:
"christian schools aren't the ivory tower of christian education. they are mostly as messed up as most public schools."
Why is this [I agree with this, by the way]? Where is the breakdown in this, and other "Christian" institutions?
"i was given the choice to be either known as a Christian or not."
Is is truly up to us how we are known? Especially when we claim the name of Christ? How should this effect our behavior and our actions?
"this whole thing about telling people to not put their kids in public schools is poorly planned"
I actually liked alot of their reasoning, not convinced on the motive, though. And, really, it was only meant to be a recommendation, not a directive or command.
"the real responsibility comes from home and from the church to teach and train these children in the way that they should go. "
Amen. However, this being the case, how do we justify even the existance of institutions such as public schools?
Please, everyone feel free to answer/comment on these.
Ian
Read this one a little late...
Well, we have done both public school and CC. For us homeschooling isn't an option. It is a great thing, just not for us, and if you homeschool (the right way) HATS off!
Our girls are at CC right now and the mix of saved kids vs unsaved is about 50/50 not all people who send their kids there are believers and it IS a way for the kids to be a light. We have had many times during our family devotions that the girls have mentioned friends that they go to school with that are not Christians. It is great for them to see and a great mission field for them. Right now CC is the best place for them, who knows maybe as they get older public will be the place to go. It is all in the Lord's leading. And it is OUR decision NOT someone elses. Different kids have different needs. ie Beth and Tim. Maybe our kids will be the same way. I can see one of mine doing great at Pinkerton but um, Betsy. NO WAY!! It's all in the training that you the parent give them at home whether or not they are going to be a light no matter where they go to school: home, private or public.
I had a great comment written up last night and I had to disconnect one of those homeschool type kids had to go home at midnight she was homesick!! ;)
Rambling yes, I know, but it is all a personal preference and WE need to teach our children to be the light in the world, Phil and I DO NOT depend on the school to teach them to be a light, (help yes,) teaching that to them is our job (and Deb's) :-)
Jen,
Thanks for the comments. This quote, "I know, but it is all a personal preference and WE need to teach our children to be the light in the world," made me ask myself this question:
As Christians, who claim the name of Christ, are bound by His authority, and responsible to his commands, how are our "personal preferences" determined? What shapes them? Are they truly "personal"?
I want to be sure that everyone realizes that the questions I pose in regards to individual's quotes are not direct challenges or refutations. All of the opinions and points of view you guys are offering have really got me thinking! The questions I put out there are for everyone to consider, and I am asking them of myself as well. I just don't want anyone to think that I'm being confrontational. :)
Ian
Interesting points Ian:
"Aren't we instructed to give our children, and seek out for ourselves, a proper, God centered education regardless of whether or not it impacts the community? Why is this? Could it be that our instruction and equipping should, come first? That it should enable our contact with the world, not facilitate it? How do these things apply to situations besides the schooling issue? Hmmmm.... "
I'm wondering if there is actually a separation of training and evangelizing- or do they go hand in hand? Personally, I think the latter- God can use a "wet-behind-the-ears" to reach others, and being blessed with the opportunity to evangelize can cause further spiritual growth. Like Jen was saying- her girls are being trained AND evangelizing at the same time- and YES I agree that Christian schools- as well as Churches are places to evangelize (especially seeker friendly churches- but I digress). The tricky part is being a light, meeting non-christian's needs with remaining "unspotted". This is of important concern with children- as it is of single women- wittnessing and being a light to unsaved christian guys can be very tricky- especially when there isn't a great way to "pass them off" to a christian guy.
Ian,
I really wasn't trying to be confrontational, I am just stating how we feel, really, ask anyone who I talk to about this.
you said... I just don't want anyone to think that I'm being confrontational. :) I don't think that you were trying to be cofrontational, I was just putting my point out and if it came across that way, I AM SORRY!!
Jen
OK no one thinks anyone is being confrontional! Knock it off!! Oh, was that confrontational? ;)
Beth,
Can you clarify this:
"Christian schools- as well as Churches are places to evangelize (especially seeker friendly churches- but I digress). "
Are you saying that they are places that should be evangelized, or that they are places where evangelizing occurs?
Jen,
I never took you to be confrontational. I just wanted to be clear that I was not being confrontational.
Jason,
I think what Tim was getting at was that even Christian schools have their problems, and shouldn't be considered to be an all protective refuge for our children. Even (especially?)on the collegiate level, I find a suprisingly large presence of things that I think a majority of people wouldn't expect to see/find at a "religious" institution.
There's more I want to say in regards to what's been posted the past few days, I just don't have the time to post it right now. Thanks again for all the feedback!
Ian
OK, I guess I will weigh in too.
I realize Ian's original question was not really about how to school our kids. It was more about what it means to be in the world but not of it. But since everyone is talking about how to school our kids, I just have a few thoughts to add to that...
I did not thrive as a Christian in a public school. I did not know any other Christians, and we did not really attend church regularly. I was a Christian, but it was kind of like being on a deserted island! I definitely did not flourish there, but God was still doing a work in me. When things got really bad for me, my mom sent me to CC. That was the perfect place for me to be at that time and I will be forever grateful for it. There were some teachers there that I think of that nutured me and cared for me in was that which, when I look back, still baffle me. I was a very immature teenager with no Bible teaching at all, and they were great to me. I have nothing against CC, I just don't send my kids there for selfish reasons. I'm not even fully convinced I do a better job teaching them (although I would like to think so) at home, but mostly I keep them home to mold them the way I think they should be. I think I can have more influence on their character with them home all day. As a side note about Calvary, there is a misconception out there that Matt had to take an extra course the summer before he started UNH because he was not up to speed enough, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Mrs. Curran had more teaching skill in her little finger than most of Pinkerton's math teachers combined. He took that class to get ahead- in typical Matt style. Matt was well prepared to take difficult engineering classes and stay towards the top of his engineering class. Which brings me to another point... Isn't a lot of it just how the student is? There are a lot of things the teachers/schools can do to help, but there's also a lot they can't.
Now to the bigger question. Even though we can still be a witness while still being wet behing the ears, there is the huge risk that it will be the other way around. Sometimes if we are too immature, we just end up being dragged down. Christ did not really start his ministry until he was 30! I am all for feeding and nuturing and making them good and strong before we throw them to the wolves. When that time is, totally depends on the kid. Maybe some kids can handle it at 10, maybe another not till 18. We have to know our kids and judge that accordingly. How much is in the world and not of it? Again, it's all relative. The kid, the situation, and of course, how it lines up biblically. I do sometimes wonder though if it's like the lobster in the pot of water. Are we becoming too worldly without even realizing it? Is the water getting hotter and hotter and before we realize we're boiled? I think being in the world and not of it, comes with much prayer and soul searching and always checking ourselves with the question, is this glorifying to God? Is this Biblical? Am I listening to the HS? I don't think the church can make these decisions for us, but I do think we need to listen carefully to our elders, being like the wise man. This may be an unpopular opinion, but if it is just a recommendation (by the PCA) and not a mandate, is it really that bad? I'm not even sure I would agree that you should never send your kid to a public school, but a recommendation? I dunno...... I realize I may become very unpopular now, and maybe somebody can change my mind on this one (it wouldn't be hard, I'm not convinced of my opinion either!), but as for me I'm glad for recommendations from my elders. Sometimes I wish there were more female older women that give me recommendations! The only trouble I can see this causing though, is for the people that don't choose their recommendation. Would they be looked at as less than by the others? They shouldn't, but practically, they might be. Just a few thoughts....
I keep getting the feeling that Ian is asking a different question than we're answering, that he is at a philisophocal level, not a practical one. [Though I find all the comments interesting.]
So, Ian, are you going for "a priori" reasoning? i.e. because we have spiritual insight & awareness, we are required to meet certain obligations in response, and you want those specific obligations spelled out?
[And a sidenote to education, in particular. There are two Christian obligations at work here: we are to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord AND we are to be God's representatives in a dark world. Let me suggest that these are not necessarily overlapping commandments. How can an unsaved child be God's representative? Or is a young newly saved child built up enough to be heavily exposed to the world system? Who will have affect on who?]
"I keep getting the feeling that Ian is asking a different question than we're answering," .... ;)
"that he is at a philisophocal level, not a practical one."
Can't philosphy be practical? Shouldn't it be?
"because we have spiritual insight & awareness, we are required to meet certain obligations in response...."
Close. I believe that our knowledge, or our participation in the process of knowing, requires us to nothing less than affirming action of that which we are knowing. We either know something to be true, or we know it to be false. Either way, our behavior, our actions, reflect our knowing. If we know something to be true, we, from the point in time of our knowing, begin to contact the world in such a way that evidences, or proves, our knowledge of that thing being true. If we know it as false, then our contact proves our knowledge of it being false. What this also means, on the other side of the coin, is that although we may claim we know something to be true, if our contact does not prove that truth, than we actually either know it to be false, or we don't know it at all. The old saying that "actions speak louder than words," is quite relevant, and this is the terrible practicality of our philosophy: that our actions reveal what we believe and who we serve, not our words. I don't say this as a commentary on the schooling issue, but rather on the larger issue of "being in the world but not of it." We are a people that claim to know God as true. Do our actions prove this? How do we contact the world that we are left in? Are we claiming with our mouths that which we don't know with our hearts and minds? Are we proving through our contact that we actually know the world to be true and don't know God at all? [And, as the world does not know God, who would know the difference but God Himself?] There is a major tendency among modern evangelicals, of which I am one, to place ourselves at the center of our faith and to claim the name of Christ as true, but attend to ourselves in our actions. I think alot of what the Church does in the name of Christ is nothing more than maneuvers to appease our own consciences. Meredith Kline once said that, "religion is man's way of running away from God (para.)." We develop something that looks like Godliness but is merely a means to appease our feelings of guilt and to make us feel justified. As the ambassadors of Christ to a dark world, what picture of Christ are we shining around? Is it the picture of Christ as presented in the Bible, or is it a picture of the world doctored to look like Christ? Are we in the world and not of it, or are we in the world and reveling in it? Are we shining the light, or are we obscuring it? In order to answer the questions of being a light to a dark world but remaining unstained by it, we first need to answer the question of what our actions attend to, what we really believe.
To use the schooling issue as an example: Why do we educate our children? What is the motivation behind either sending them to public school OR homeschooling them? As Christians we say that the material things of the world have no eternal value, that we should not seek after them or hoarde them up, that we should store up our treasures in Heaven, and seek first the Kingdom of God. But what is the motivation behind eduacting our children? What are we educating them to? Are we educating them to worldly prosperity or Kingdom prosperity? Are we training them to be public servants or Kingdom servants? Which one attends more rightly to our claim of the truth of God? [I am not advocating ignorant children, just making a point, trying to guide conversation :) ]. Why do we work hard at our jobs? Is it to gain favor with the boss? Can we truly say that our efforts are to rightly portray Christ, or are they to portray ourselves in better light? What do our actions attend to, in spite of what our words claim?
OK, I'm really tired and am rambling, as we Graves tend to do when we get tired. But maybe this will get us away from the schooling issue and onto the larger, intended topic. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the conversation thus far, but don't want it to die out as a discussion on public vs. home school.
"There are two Christian obligations at work here: we are to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord AND we are to be God's representatives in a dark world. Let me suggest that these are not necessarily overlapping commandments." -Debbi
I do want to comment on this, but I'll wait until such time I can keep my eyes ope................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i just wanted to defend what i said for a second. first of all, i totally believe that a Christian school is only as good as its staff and teachings. the thing that makes master's great are the teachers. but what is happening in a lot of Christian schools is that the really good teachers aren't getting paid what they could be in other places, so they leave to teach in a public setting (a christian teacher in a public setting... that could have great affect...yet i digress). A lot of christian schools are bringing in staff that aren't the greatest and don't have the solid doctrinal setting.
jason was right about the students though. at my time at Calvary, not to say its a bad place, it seemed like half my class were kids that got kicked out of the public school. there were teachers that were great, but i was confronted with drugs, profanity, and sex and I left after the seventh grade! i didn't even have to get into high school for that stuff. i was just saying that Christian schools aren't always filled with great Christian kids and isn't the utopian school for a kid to go to.
I agree with Tim on his last statement! It is what we make of it, no matter where you are home, public or private.
Many of the teachers at CC are there as missionaries. There only purpose there is to teach the children about the Lord, their paychecks are fluff. I mean it I have seen one! I know that is is their hearts desire to have these children learn to serve and love the Lord. Many of the kids are there for discipline issues YES! Mine aren't, but there are definilty kids there with issues, and no matter where they are they will have issues. It is all in who you choose for your friends, HEY I am all for picking my kids friends. I really do that at school for them too, (they don't know it!) We are here to train them.
Ian asked Why do we educate our children? What is the motivation behind either sending them to public school OR homeschooling them? As Christians we say that the material things of the world have no eternal value, that we should not seek after them or hoarde them up, that we should store up our treasures in Heaven, and seek first the Kingdom of God. But what is the motivation behind eduacting our children? What are we educating them to? Are we educating them to worldly prosperity or Kingdom prosperity? Are we training them to be public servants or Kingdom servants? Which one attends more rightly to our claim of the truth of God?
Are we working for material things?
Missions is VERY important here at our house, come look and see, we don't have a lot of the things that a lot of people have, Yes we have things that we like and enjoy, I don't think that God wants us to live in a shack, if He blesses you with things He commands us to take care of them to be good stewards, and to serve Him with all that we have. money isn't everything. If my house were to burn tomorrow I know that it is all in Gods plan, and I could be a witness to someone who doesn't know about God and they can watch the action and reaction that I may have. Seeing all the "things" burn up. Hey they are all going to burn someday anyway right? God commands us to work, We are a testemony no matter where we works... At a high level "power job" where you are in demand 24/7 or if it is for yourself, and you have the ability to work whenever the demand is there. It is all about the way you work and what your motivation is.
My nephew is a lawyer, and he was homeshcooled. His parents taught the kids from the very beginning of life to serve the Lord with all that they can. He is going to be a great lawyer, who will be a testimony to all he comes into contact with. His younger brother wants to be a landscaper, what do you think, is one more important than the other? in the eyes of man yes! But in the eyes of GOD it is about your time and talents right?
How are you serving? what are you teaching your children. I want my kids to be able to discern from working for themselves and working for God. BIG difference!
We are commanded to work, and not to be sluggards. What does that mean? Money happens when you work, how you use your money is what God is looking at! Are you buying that latest fast, red convertable? or are you helping those around you that need the help? Are you spending it foolishly or are you helping with missions. I think that is the real question, when you really think about what was asked. Am I wrong on this one? boy I hope not!
rambling yeah, and I still haven't had my coffee!!!!
How is that fo rgetting off the school question? ;)
Why do we educate? A few learned thoughts...
John Adams: "Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties; and...these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education..."
Thomas Jefferson: "Dispositions of the mind, like limbs of the body, acquire strength by exercise..."
John Quincy Adams: "So great is my veneration for the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it, the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens to their country, and respectable members of society."
Herbert Schlossberg: "In their uncompromising determination to proclaim truth, Christians must avoid the intellectual flabbiness of the larger society..."
2 books you would consume with relish:
The Scandal of the Evangelical Maind (Mark A. Noll)
Love Your God With All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the Soul (J.P. Moreland)
Some other learned ;) thoughts...
Debi C.:
All history is the God's sovereign history. It's good to know how God has worked in the past.
Near Eastern/Mediterranean ancient history in particular helps us understand our Bibles better.
Archaeology and reading primary sources gives us a glimpse into the past and expands our Biblical and apologetic knowledge.
The Sciences give us a look into the creative, infinitely complex mind of God and expands our apologetic knowledge. (This one's for you, Beth.)
The art of self-expression in speech and on paper is invaluable. The training of the mind in the capacity to think clearly affects all aspects of life and service. It's also the best protection a citizen has against the cant and humbug that surrounds us.
Math: I'm sure something is useful here, but it's not one of my main areas of interest, though I do find it useful for living - balancing the checkbook, assessing compound interest, etc.
Ultimately: exercising the mind makes us better witnesses, better discerners, better citizens, better able to function IN the world and better stewards of what God has given us.
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